Prima Secundae
Lecture 203: Sin from Malice and Its Relation to Habit

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It used to be a little grocery store we'd go by there, you know, and there's a front bar, one-armed man, right, you know, he had lost an arm or something, but he had a nice cooler in the front there, you know, that's grape soda and orange soda, oh boy, a little money go by there, you know. It's not going to really bad people, I mean, there's a lot of disorder there in which you'll love more, right? Right? Usually people, when they start off in wine, they like white wine more than red wine, right, but then once they get on, they get to like the red wine more, because there's more to taste there, right? Consequently of this is that someone chooses, right, to suffer detriment, right, harm, you might say, right, in a good less loved, right, in order that he might enjoy a good more loved, you know, this could be good in some cases, right, as when a man wishes to undergo, cutting off of a, what, limb, remember, knowingly, that he might conserve his life, which he loves more, right, you know, read about all these things being chopped off during the Civil War, right, you know, didn't know what else to do, and in this way, when a disordered, when some disordered will, wishes some temporal good, right, when a moral loves some temporal good, as example, what? Well, or pleasure, right, then the order of reason, right, or the divine law, or the love of God, or something of this sort, right? It follows that he wishes, what, to suffer, huh, some, how would, and something of spiritual goods, in order that he might enjoy some temporal good, right, huh, okay, for evil is nothing other than the lack of some, what, good, huh, and in account of this, someone knowingly, right, wishes some spiritual, what, evil, which is evil, what, some pichitere, to which he is deprived, huh, from some spiritual good, right, that he might enjoy a, what, temporal good, right, that's my friend there, Don Juan, huh, Don Giovanni, huh, when some jealousy is said, from certain malice, or from indirectity to sin, as it were, knowingly choosing, what, bad, yeah. Now, in this recent election there, you know, someone was not doing too good, you know, because he was too pro-life, you know, so he decides to, you know, drop this thing in favor of something, you know, that he shouldn't be, you know. So, shall we be going to do that, right, you want to get elected, right, and maybe this is what you have to do in this state to get elected, right. So he more wants to be elected than to, what, stand up for what is right, huh. So we saw the objections, so we could not go over the beginning. Now, the next two articles are about, what, connection between habit, right, and malice. Habit is a second, what, nature they call it sometimes, so watch out for habit. I guess when you die, you're stuck with your habits. Stuck with a lady who was in favor of a boy, and by this other count, do you think if Christ was talking like I am right now, that he'd support you? And she said, he would respect my choice. And I said, yeah, forever and ever. People respect their choice. The second one goes forward thus, it seems that not everyone who sins from habit sins from certain, what, malice. For the sin that is from certain malice seems to be the most grave. But sometimes a man commits some light sin from, what, habit, huh? As when one says an idle word, right? Cheddar box. There used to be a little restaurant in St. Paul, my hometown there, called Cheddar Box, right? And the thing that's funny was we had a friend, his telephone number is almost the same as the number of Cheddar Box. He said, when you call me, somebody should get the Cheddar Box thing. Hello, Cheddar Box! He just laughed, you know, Cheddar Box. But there must be a lot of word there, if it's named properly, the rest of it. But sometimes a man consists, okay, from habit. He says an idle word. Therefore, not every sin which is from habit is from certain, what, malice. Let's look at the reply to that objection, right? To the first, therefore, it should be said that venial sins do not exclude, what, spiritual good, the spiritual good, which is the grace of God, or the love of God, right? Right on, the charity. Whence they are not said to be evil, simplicitare, but secundum quid. That's the same distinction there, right? Between simplicitare and secundum quid, eh? That comes up in the, what? First distinctions of being, right? Because substance is being simplicitare, and accident is being, what? Secundum quid, right, eh? And likewise, the other division to act and ability, right, eh? So if I know something in ability, do I say I know it, simplicitare? I'd say I know it in ability. I'm able to know it. That's very qualified. Diminished sins, right, eh? So that's some relief, eh? My venial sins are evil, secundum quid, and not simplicitare, right? Like my mortal sins are. On account of this, neither are the habits of them said to be simply evil, right? But solum secundum quid, eh? So when you get the chatterbox there, you tell them. Your habit is secundum quid evil, eh? The second objection. Acts proceeding from habit are like acts that are generated, right? I like the acts from which the habit is what? Generated, eh? Okay? That's the point that Aristotle makes. That's a quote from Aristotle. As is said in the second book of the, what, ethics. That's a book where Aristotle talks in general about the moral virtues, right? Before he gets into them in particular, eh? But the acts preceding a, what, vicious habit are not from certain malice, eh? Therefore also the sins which come from habit are not from certain malice. It's a difficult objection, right? Sure, they're alike, but are they in every way alike, eh? No. And this is the point that Aristotle makes in the ethics, right? To the second it should be said that the acts which proceed from habits are like, what, the acts from which the habits are generated in species, right? Secundum species. They differ however from them as the perfect from the, what, imperfect. So if I do a brave act before I've acquired the habit of courage, I do so with, what, difficulty and some hesitation and so on, right, eh? Why the act I do after I've acquired the habit of, what, courage, I do with a sense of ability and so on. So it's much more perfect, my act, eh? And such, he says, is the difference of the sin which is committed from certain malice and the sin which is committed from some passion, right? So if they're a person, you know, there's no experience with alcohol and they get drunk, right? And they didn't stop in time. It's all equal passion, right? Got a little carried away, right? But if they acquired the habit, you know, they just get drunk every, what? Yeah. Yeah. And every weekend it's set aside to get drunk, right? Or to get, and it's kind of a stable. Oh, my choice psalmist. He says, and such is the difference of the sin that's committed from certain malice to the sin that's committed from some passion, right? So the sin that's committed from some passion can come before the acquiring of the habit, right, eh? If you repeat the act enough and you get the habit and then you're kind of, in a stable way you do that. Moreover, the third objection now, in those things which someone commits from certain malice, he rejoices after he has, what? Committed them, huh? According to that of Proverbs chapter 2. Who rejoice when they do, what? Badly. And rejoice, huh? Exalt in them. And this because to each one is pleasant what follows, what? When he achieves that which he intends, right? And who operates what is in some way connatural according to habit, huh? So habit is said to be a second, what? Nature, huh? Took in the song there. Second nature to me now, right, huh? Like breathing in and breathing out, right? Or breathing out and breathing in is what? First nature, right? I'm breathing air in and out all day long and I hardly ever think about it. Do you? I don't think about the fact that I go day after day and I don't think I just think, gee, it was every day I've been breathing in the air and breathing in the air and I haven't been even thinking about the fact that I do that, right? It's so natural to me, right? But habit becomes something, what? You? I say, you know, what play you're currently reading Shakespeare now? What? What kind of person that day has? I never read Shakespeare. I can't read Shakespeare. Yeah, yeah. You must be reading some play, I mean, currently. But those who sin from habit after the sin committed, they, what? Sorrow. Sorrow. For the evil are filled with, what? Penance, right? That is, those having a vicious habit as it's said in the ninth of ethics, right? Well, that happens sometimes, right? You can't stand themselves anymore, right? Therefore, the sins which are from habit or not from certain, what? Malice, huh? Okay. Well, to the third, it should be said, Well, to the third. Well, to the third. Well, to the third. Well, to the third. That the one who sins from habit always rejoices about that which he does from habit, so long as he uses the habit, right? But because he is able not to use the habit, but through his reason, which is not holy, corrupted yet, he is able to meditate something what? It could happen that the man not using the habit is sorrowful, right? About that which he has committed through what? Habit, huh? For many times, such, what, do penance about their sin because the sin, secundum se, dispeases them, right, huh? When it encounters something incommodious that occurs in the sin, right? But the habit is something that you use when you want to, right? Hard to avoid using it if you have it. What was the case there, you know, where the, I think it was the Spanish Civil War, I think, you know, where the Communists were, you know, killing people and going to the churches, and I think there was a girl there in a white dress, you know, and she stood in front of the church entrance, you know, and they shot her, you know, and of course, the blood just, you know, came through. Then the white dress, you know, it just kind of shocked them. They stopped them, you know, you know? It shows you there's something in you, your reason that they're already corrupt, right? There's something about the way the girl, you know, white dress, you know, the blood coming out, and you just, you just have to think, you know, from what, you know? Or if the person just fall on the ground, they kind of run out of your body, right? You know, but it's just stood there, you know, and the blood just, oh, just thinks that sort of... Or people, you know, they go and harm somebody, and they actually see the harm they've done to the person's body or something, you know, or then they start to repent, you know? But against this, sin from certain malice is said to be that which is from the choice of something bad, right? But to each one that is choosable, that he's inclined to, to his own, what, habit, as is said in the Sixth Book of Ethics, huh? So Aristotle, when he defines, you know, the virtue, right, huh? Right, he'll speak about it as what? He used the word choice in there, right? A habit with choice. Therefore, the sin which is from habit is from certain what? Malice. Now in the response there, Thomas sees a distinction, which is important to see. I answer, it should be said, that it is not the same thing to sin having a habit and to sin from habit, huh? And why is they not the same thing? Because to use a habit is not necessary, right? But it's subject to the will of the one having it, huh? And that's true whether the habit be good or, what, bad, right, huh? Okay? So even a Christian, let's say, who doubts something about the faith, right, he can do that, right? And then he's not using the habit of faith, right, which would repulse this doubt, right? Okay? It's going to be sudden, you know, you know, the question of what can happen, but, I mean, the point is you don't necessarily use a habit, whether it be good or, what, bad, huh? Once a habit is defined, and this is the one that Thomas often quotes Mavera was, right? He agrees with Mavera was, huh? But once a habit is defined, is that which someone uses when he, what? Wills, yeah. Thomas, in the bottom of my text, they have one from Augustine, too, for this, but also one from Mavera was, right, in the third book on the soul, 18. And therefore, just as it can happen that someone having a vicious habit breaks into an act of virtue, in that reason is not only, what, corrupted through a bad habit, huh? I think that movie there, Last Train to Yuma, was it, was that the one famous one? You know, the guy's trying to bring the guy into prison, you know, and the guy finds a temp, he's really all kinds of things, you know, difficulties in doing it, and finally the guy's attempt to, or ability or time to escape, and he just doesn't do it, you know? He feels like God's got through so much. It's a really interesting movie there, you know, one of the good, good vested movies. I think they did it two or three times in the movie, I mean, different actors and the thing. And therefore, just as it can happen that someone having a vicious habit breaks into an act of virtue, right? In that reason is not only corrupted, right? Through the, what? But something, what? Integral remains, huh? From which it happens that the, what? The sinner does something of the genus of, what? Good things, right, huh? You know, I was reading this biography of John Paul II, you know, and it's kind of interesting that he's working with the head of the Polish government there, the final general there, Jaruzelski, who's not a believer, you know, but he was doing some good things, you know, despite his habits, huh? Yeah. This book had some quotes of his, you know, biography or autobiography, you know, very interesting. I remember that time when he met him, I always thought that Jaruzelski was extremely nervous, right? And he says to Barbara, his things were shedding, his legs were shedding. The Pope knows that, too, you know. I've seen, you know, the film, you know, you know, the time of the... He's the head of the agenda and everything, you know. Very interesting little things in this book, you know. Confirmation of things that I suspected, you know. But this also can happen, that someone having a habit, huh, sometimes does not act from habit, but also from what? A passion arising, or even from what? Ignorance. So that's in person having a, what? Habit, but not acting from habit, right? But whenever he uses a vicious habit, right, necessarily he sins from certain malice, right? Thomas is very strong there, right? When you act from a habit, and from a habit that is, what? Vicious. Then you necessarily sin from certain malice, huh? Why? Because to each one having a habit, that is per se lovable, right? What is fitting, or in agreement with, his own habit, huh? Because it comes to him in some way, what? Conactual, right? According as custom and habit are turned into, what? Nature, huh? This over that is suitable according to a vicious habit is that which excludes a spiritual good. So what is in agreement with a vicious habit excludes a spiritual good. Too bad. That's the way it is. From which it follows that a man chooses a spiritual evil that he might obtain the good that is, what? Suitable to him. A habit. And this is to sin from certain, what? Malice, huh? Whence it is manifest that whoever sins from habit sins from, what? Certain malice. Not everyone sinning, having a habit, right? But who sins from the habit, right? Sin. Sins from certain, what? Malice, huh? These habits are dangerous things, huh? But they're bad. A good habit I don't think is dangerous, but... Of course, the Americans are getting convictuated to all kinds of crazy things, right? Homosexual marriage and all this. They're getting accustomed. Yeah, yeah. And then, because of habitual, right? Johnny has two mothers, or Johnny has two fathers, or something. Some families have got two mummies. Some have got two fathers, some have got a mummies and a father. That's why I'm teaching them in some grade schools. I mean, they get away with it. It's just... But now the next article is going to say what? Is everyone who sits from certain mouths, is he sitting for a bit, right? Are these convertible? Are animal and dog convertible? Well, every dog is an animal, but is every animal a dog? But it's interesting. I mean, this habit is really kind of the main thing there in mouths. So Don Giovanni's got a habit of you-know-what. And so he sins from habit all the time, right? At the great dinner there before the ghost appears, right? He's singing, you know, woman is the glory of man, and so on. See, Don Giovanni begins the opera with him, trying to seduce a woman, right? But then the father has come on, and he's drawing the sword, and he kills the father. It can't change, right? You know, when you say in the Hail Mary, you know, we say, Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners. Now, and then at the hour of death, right? What's important about the hour of death, right? It says where your tree falls there, it's alive, right? Where your habits are, you're going to fall that way, probably, right? And it would be the only great mercy of God that you wouldn't fall in the direction that your habit is, right? And Don Giovanni just, he falls where his habits are, as most people would do it, you know? That's where you're going to lie for all eternity. Pray to me. Now, is the sin of certain malice tied to sinning from habit? It can happen. It's more understandable, Sonny, that, you know, one would sin from habit, right? To the third one proceeds thus, it seems that whoever sins from certain malice sins from, what, habit? It's seen that way, huh? For the philosopher says in the fifth book of ethics, that's the book devoted to consideration of justice, huh? That it is not a gist of anyone to do unjust things in the way that the unjust man does them, right? Which is to wit from, what, choice, huh? But only in those having a habit. But to sin from certain malice is to sin from the choice of evil, right? Therefore, to sin from certain malice is not except the one having a habit, huh? And Aristotle is very good about the influence of habit upon what? Choice, right, huh? Choice, right? It's the habit of choosing, right, huh? If I have the habit of gluttony, huh? I habitually choose to eat more than I should. So your choices are very much influenced by these things, right? I was thinking, well, I'd like to go to a restaurant and they give you a menu, right? You know? Anyway, when I was in Quebec, I used to go to a little restaurant, Mount Colm restaurant, and it's named out to the guy, you know, the famous defender of Quebec in the old days. But mostly one of the houses they lived in, you know, originally, but it's a little restaurant. These doors get the petite steak, you know, petite steak, french fries, you know. Every day I go there, every time I go there, I wear that. So the waitress got to know me, you know. When she saw me walk in the door, she'd turn around and yell at the kitchen, petite steak, that's it! So as soon as I, I can see the front, I'm sorry, I can see the truck, put down two hamburgers across the road, right? She comes in the drive room, boom, and goes, two hamburgers across the road, yeah, we did. Yeah, yeah. I didn't leave. I don't know if he's still alive. The first, therefore, it should be said, let's simply reply to the objection. The first, therefore, it should be said that to act as the unjust one acts, right, is not only to do something unjust, right, from certain, what, malice, but also, what, yeah, and without any great, what, refusal of reason, right, or opposition of reason, right, which is not except the one who has the, what, habit, huh, okay? So every morning I choose to drink tea instead of coffee, you know? I'm really making a choice, see, you know, but, you know, always choose. Why the judge? Or you're going to go to one of these banquets, you know, and sometimes you have a choice, you know, you know. You want a snake or you want a snake? No choice, no choice. Yeah, yeah. No brain. Whatever origin says in the first book about the beginnings, huh, that it is not, what, suddenly, right, that someone is empty or fails, but little by little, right, huh, is necessary for him, what, through parts, right, to decline, right, huh, but the maximalist defluxes, right, flowing down would seem to be when someone sins from certain, what, malice, therefore not at once from the beginning, but through much, what, custom, from which a habit is able to be generated to someone arrive at this thing that he sins from certain malice, huh? You've got to become, yeah, yeah. What's, what's the, yeah, yeah, the woman, the people are raised from the dead by Christ, right, huh? Do you see a spiritual sense in this, right? Lazarus is buried, right, huh? The son of the widow there, taken out, and then there's a girl who's, yeah, and these are different stages of people in the death of sin, right, even spiritually signifying this, huh, but the one who's already buried and been in the grave for four days, that's a person who has died and is habitual in all his sin, right, huh? And then, you know, you have the different grades, right? That's what they're talking about here right now, what Orish is talking about, huh? To second, it should be said, huh, did not stop him at once, right, to one will fall that he sins from certain malice, but it presupposes something, right, which, nevertheless, is not always a habit, right? Well, I wonder what that is, huh? Like a wonder is aroused by this, you know, philosophy begins in wonder, right, huh, you know? But the objections, you know, if you do them properly, they kind of arouse a certain, what? Reasonable wonder, right, huh? A more educated wonder, right, huh? So there's really a problem here, right? Otherwise, your mind thinks it's too easy, maybe, this thing, right? You know, in these texts I can never read here, you know, the answer is better than in bold, you know, so you get right to the answer, you know? But there's no wonder they're aroused, right, huh, you know? I see. Well, what is he talking about there, you know? Moreover, sometimes someone breaks. whenever someone when someone sins from certain malice is necessary that his will of itself inclined to the evil that he what chooses but from the nature of the power man is not inclined to evil right but more to the good right but it's necessary that if you choose evil that this be from something coming upon the power right which is either a passion or a habit but when some sins from passion he's not sinned from certain malice but from infirmity as has been said therefore whenever someone sins from certain mouths it is necessary that he sinned from habit so he's saying that god gave you your nature and the inclination that falls upon the nature is something good just as the nature that god gave you is right so how can you using that power that has a natural inclination to what is good how can you choose something that you know to be bad right to make sense there's got to be something added to that natural power and that can be either an emotion a passing thing or it can be a habit right and if it's from a passion well then we say it's not a sin from for from malice right so it must be from a habit right i'm convinced right i rest my case you know you know you're guilty you sin from you know malice you sin from habit right aren't you convinced of that maybe thomas is not convinced but i'm convinced who wouldn't be convinced a reasonable man you know now it's interesting on time this is a reply to the said contra i know this is sometimes you know huh and you respect you say hey how come he's got four answers and only three objections right but there's objection on the other side right said contra but again it says just as a good habit is to the choice of good so is a bad habit to the choice of bad you know that's a great influence the habit upon choice there's dollar point so but sometimes someone not having the habit of virtue chooses that which is good according to virtue therefore sometimes someone not having the habit vicious habit is able to choose evil right these two things are similar right which is from certain malice to what sin and thomas says to the fourth it should be said that is not similar reason about the choice of good and about the choice of bad right because evil never what is without the good of what nature but good can be without the what evil guilt perfectly let's see what thomas says i'm surprised he's going to do it i mean it's a great suspense huh did you ever read what plato or socrates says about wonder there in one of the dialogues he says it's not a bad genealogy he said the one who said that iris is the offspring of thalma and he goes on it doesn't explain right i said well now it's a marvelous thing thalma of course is is what wonder personified right and iris is you know from shakespeare's play is what two things the rainbow personified right and and uh what else messenger the gods right yeah so an iris is introduced in in uh one of shakespeare's like plays the tempest right then and uh prospero conjures up this vision right now and when iris appears someone says hail many colored messenger so um she's both the rainbow personified who made a person and what messenger of the god so socrates is saying that iris is the offspring of wonder huh thalma that genealogy says it goes off doesn't explain what he's saying what does that mean it's a good genealogy it goes back to what one of the great poets about homer but the other one yeah what what ask about iris first of all why should iris both be the rainbow and the messenger of god yeah it joins heaven the place of the gods right with earth the place of man right huh and what does the messenger do it goes between the god and us right huh so to say that iris is the offspring of wonder is to say that wonder does what what yeah it unites us in some way of god right huh well how does one to do that well wonder makes us look for the cause and if we know the cause it makes us look for the cause of the cause right and the wonder is never fully satisfied till we get to the first cause and that's god right so wonder joins us with god right the beautiful way of saying it though right huh you know how wonder how the rainbow in uh the old testament right after the flood and so on it's a sign now of what reconciliation between man and god and why is the rainbow appropriate there's a sign of that right apart from being very beautiful but i mean why is it appropriate right because it seems to unite heaven and what earth beautifully said you know we're wondering now as to how how one can sin from malice and not from what habit it seems like that would be at least the usual thing right well let's see what the master says because he's got a he's put us in the he's confused the issue now make you think right i answer it should be said that the will has itself in a different way to good and to bad huh for from the nature of what its potency huh the will it's inclined to the good of reason right justice to its own what object right whence every sin is said to be against nature what does shakespeare say revolts from true birth stumbling on abuse well birth is where you get the word nature right so he's moved the word birth there to what we call nature today but nature comes from that nativity prenatal postnatal right comes from birth whence every sin is said to be against yeah that's a what we call in logic a universal affirmative statement every sin is said to be against nature right so excellent shakespeare isn't that so what good but strange in that fair use revolts from true birth stumbling on abuse whence therefore that something that the will uh what in choosing inclines to something what bad is necessary to what that happened elsewhere right that's what one objection was saying right that's got to be a passion or happen you know how they convinced dummy brick was there right okay and sometimes it happens from the defect of reason as when someone sins from what ignorance sometimes from the impulse of the sense desiring power as when someone sins from what passion passion but neither of these is to sin from what certain mouths but then only from certain mouths to someone sin when the will itself from itself right is moved to evil right which can happen in two ways in one way and this is the way that more obvious through this that a man has some corrupt disposition right a habit is a disposition right through this that a man has some corrupt disposition inclining him to evil right thus that according to that disposition inclining him to evil right thus that a man has some corrupt disposition right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this that a man has some corrupt position right through this becomes to the man suitable right and similar something evil right and in this by reason of the what agreement the will tends as if it were in something what good right what's the first definition of the good the good is what all want right so you want this because you have it and therefore it seems to be something wantable what's wantable something good right so it seems to be something good right such a what corrupt decision is either a what habit acquired from what custom which has been turned into what nature right or it is some what sick cabitude on the part of the body has been someone having certain natural inclinations to some sin like coriolanus anger right on account of the corruption of the of nature what in him right in another way it happens that the will parasite tends in something evil through the removal of something what preventing it prohibiting it as when someone is what prevented the sin not because the sin is displeasing to him as such right not because fornication is such as displeasing to him right but either on account of the hope of eternal life or an account of the fear of hell right so in the act of contrition that they taught me you first refer to these two things right and then later on most of all because of me my god right but most people are moved by the other right huh you know i called the county house there i go on sunday there and we taught the money you know the church right coming in you know do all this kind of fancy stuff and so on but i think i had said in there you know i'd seen this thing from padre peel you know where where somebody said i don't believe in hell and padre peel said uh uh you will when you get there and so last last sunday there i was there and i think i said you know and the other guy maybe he forgot that i had said it but he he brought it out he said he heard that padre peel had said this you know i said we didn't say shiver it out yeah so i must have said he shivered out this guy you know that's sure sure funny peel said it in you know it's good in mind huh but removing hope by what despair or fear through what resumption i know it's those two things right hope through desperation and fear through presumption we talked about how thomas there in the commentary in the psalms right since in the psalms you mentioned both hope and fear hope and god and fear of god right together right and thomas says you need both right because the hope uh without the fear would become presumption right and the fear without the hope would become what despair right and i sometimes um that's interesting you know the tragedy and comedy right now tragedy arouses what fear you know and pity too but fear right and comedy arises what mirth and hope right but they kind of balance each other right now if you had if you you know the greeks would have uh i think two or three tragedies and they play comedy right because if you listen nothing but the tragedy you'd probably get kind of what melancholy and kind of despair about the human situation but if all you do is listen to comedies you get superficial and and and you know think everything is tatsy tatsy right and nothing has to be taken too seriously you know no matter what it is right we have to balance those things right but as a philosopher i said same thing you know huh you know the beautiful dialogue there the the last day of socrates life right and uh you need the hope of what finding the truth the hope that you can come to actually know the truth right and a lot of philosophers or thinkers have despaired of really knowing the truth right um you know like uh when he could chambers you know seven he came back you know to his you know fellow students there at columbia you know he had to soon you know spice them because they regarded ideas as ping pong balls i mean a beautiful metaphor right ping pong ball you knock back and forth you know but you don't take the ping pong ball very seriously yeah and that's all they do with ideas right they knock them back and forth you know talk about them but you know they don't take it seriously they're not trying to find the truth anymore i mean a lot of them have despair to find the truth right a lot of people like that in the academic world but then if you didn't have the fear right of being mistaken right fear of being here you know like warren murray said about once indian his principal passion is but i remember when i went first went to laval i told you that i think before but uh sirik you know was telling me you know one time he's in senior dean's class and he had some question about something he had said and so we went to see him in his office afterwards right and he talked much differently in the office and uh the sirik said uh why are you talking so much different in the in the classroom oh he says it's the business of the professor to encourage the students you know but then you see sometimes you got to have this other thing right fear right you know it's a little guessing amount of fear right and uh so you have to get a balance between hope and fear right that's not quite a long thing but you can see it here right the necessity right you can lose your soul by desperation you can lose your soul by what presumption right you got to avoid both so if one despairs or one becomes presumptuous then one could sin from certain malice as it were without what yeah yeah and they talk about that scripture doesn't about you know them kind of uh despairing of their salvation and they just kind of didn't sell over to the devices of you know and they sin as it were kind of but by choice right you know yeah yeah yes and a quote there from uh some the commonwealth or some place you know when what the pope says doesn't fit you know then the only proper response is dissent you know thus therefore it is clear that the sin which is from certain malice right always presupposes in man some disorder right which nevertheless is not always what a habit whence it is not necessary that whoever sins from certain malice sins from habit it's interesting what he says there right now that could be through either desperation or what resumption right now don't make mistakes i always think do you have to do with me there are kinds of errors you can distinguish let's just get on to the important things i want to really do deep stuff i don't want to talk about it and despair too right i tell you that little thing about the the nun who is taking care of john paul the second there he didn't look too healthy you know one day and she said i'm worried about your holiness he said i'm worried about my holiness too that's marvelous that's a marvelous that's a marvelous little anecdote you know you know unless we take a little break right now