Tertia Pars
Lecture 115: Merit, Satisfaction, and Sacrifice in Christ's Passion

Transcript
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That's just the way it is, you know? Yeah. Of course, you know, Samuel Johnson, you know, that just infuriated. Yeah, I mean, just, you know, man, you could say those things, you can't even think those things, you know? Yeah. Anyway. Now, the third objection, right? And that is one about complimenting the emperor's thing. To the third, it should be said that ignorance affectata, we have a word like in English, right? Affected ignorance. Yeah, affected, yeah. Does not excuse from guilt, but more seems to aggravate the guilt, huh? For it shows a man to be thus so vehemently affected to sinning that he wishes to incur ignorance lest he, what? Asking. Sking out of sin, right? Yeah, unless he avoids sinning. Well, because he wants to do it. That's his affection for sin. He wants to sin. Lest he avoids sinning, though. Yeah, he wants to sin so much. Lest he has to avoid sinning. Oh. He wants to sin, right? So he wants to be ignorant, so he doesn't have to change, so he doesn't have to avoid. Yeah, that's right, so he can do the evil he wants. Okay. And therefore, the Jews sin, right? Not only the, what? The crucifiers of the man Christ, but also of what? Yeah. God. That's very serious. There's a story from the rest of the revolution, and this mass was going on, and the revolutionaries came in and shot the priest, and the consecrated host fell from his hand, and the revolution killer smashed up his heel, and it says, that's your God under my heel, and one of the peasants spoke up, and he said that, Father, forgive him even if he knows what he's doing. Okay, then. Time for that? Do I have to stop? Do I? Oh, this is kind of short. Sure. Do I think we're going to go ahead? Yeah. Okay. Whether the sin of those crucifying Christ was not, or was, the most grave, right? It seems that the sin of those crucifying Christ was not the most grave. For that is not most grave, a sin that has some excuse, right? But the Lord excused the sin of those crucifying him, saying, Father, forgive them because they know not what they do, right? Therefore, the sin of them was not the most grave, right? However, the Lord says to Potter, John 19, 11, who handed me over to you as the greater, what? Sin. But Piotr made Christ to be crucified to his ministers. Therefore, it seems the greater was the sin of, what? Judas, betrayer. Sin of betrayer. Then the sin of those crucifying Christ. Moreover, according to the philosopher in the fifth book of the ethics, no one suffers, what? Unjustice. Willing. Willing. And just as he himself says there, no one, what? Suffering the unjust. To no one suffering the unjust. Makes no one. For the justice, nobody works. Oh, when no one suffers the justice, no one does the justice. Yeah, he's not the one. Therefore, willingly, no one does the unjust. But Christ voluntarily suffered. Therefore, it does not unjust that they crucified him, right? He wanted to be crucified. He's doing his will. Yeah. But against this is what is said upon that of Matthew 23. And you fill up the measure of your fathers, says Chrysostom. Or Chrysostom says about that text. As regards the truth, they exceeded the measure of their, what? Fathers. For those men, for they killed men. But these crucified God. The answer should be said, as has been said. The princes of the Jews knew Christ, right? And if there was any ignorance in them, it was an effected ignorance. Which could not, what? Excuse them. Excuse them. And therefore, their sin was most grave, both from the genus of the sin, as well as from the malice of their, what? Will. But the lesser Jews, most gravely sinned as regards the genus of sin. But in some way, their sin is diminished on account of their, what? Ignorance. Whence, upon that of Luke 23, they know not what they do, says the, for those he prays who did not know what they did, having the zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. Yeah. It's like he's praying for them and not for the princes so much. That's what it's saying. Yeah. You mean the princes could convert afterwards? I don't know. That's not clear from the Acts. Well, I know it says, it said that some of the priests, as in Acts, it said many of the priests have become believers, but it didn't say about the high priests, the princes. Yeah. But our Lord foretells this in, when he says, he tells us what it's possible, he says, there were those who will kill you who think they're serving God. That was foretell first in himself. Yeah. Because they had zeal for God. Yeah. Much more was excusable the sin of the Gentiles, through whose hands Christ is crucified, who did not have the knowledge of the law. To the first, therefore, it should be said, he said, Father, forgive them for not what they do. That, the excuse of the Lord, does not refer to the princes of the Jews, but to the lesser of the people, right? That's an interesting explanation of that. You know, more precise understanding of that. To the second, it should be said, and maybe for the Gentiles too, huh? To the second, it should be said that Judas handed over, what, Christ, not to Pilate, but to the princes of the priests. We handed him over to Pilate. According to that of John 18, your nation and your priests have handed you over to me. And of all of these, the sin was greater than that of Pilate, who by his fear of Caesar, killed Christ, right? You know, friend of Caesar, if you tolerate this, man. And also then the sin of the soldiers, who by the command of the one presiding, crucified Christ. Christ, not from cupidity of Judas, nor from envy and hatred, as the princes of the priests. The third one, what, Christ's willingness. That Christ wished to be sure of his own passion, just as God willed it, right? But nevertheless, he did not will the evil action of the Jews. And therefore, the killers of Christ are not excused from injustice. And nevertheless, the one who kills the man, there's an injury not only to man, but also to God and to the Republic, right? Just as the one who kills himself, as the philosopher says in the fifth book of the ethics. I guess Aristotle's going to come down against the mercy killer, huh? And once David condemns to death, the one who does not, what, fear to replace his hands. So we're asking for it. This is read Second Kings. Yeah. It's the one of the Lord. It's just starting to read the... Richard II, I know, of course, he's going to be eventually killed, right? Of course, when you have the continuation, you know, this effects of the reign of Henry IV, huh? Even Henry V, he's still having prayers said for it. For Richard, yeah, because he's curious he's going to be punished for what they did, you know. He didn't do what his father did, you know. He inherited the film from his father. The beautiful passage there at the beginning, you know, about the effect of the appetite there. He says, high stomached are they both, is the way they can kind of frown, right? Oh, yeah, because of the appetite, huh? And... Oh, yeah, because of the appetite there. Yeah, yeah. And then he says, and then he says, and he says, yeah, and... And the last part, hasty is fire, but... In rage, death is the sea. Hasty is fire. Death is the sea? In rage, death is the sea. Hasty is fire. Well, that's the kind of two causes of error, right? Hasty is fire if you're attempting something, you know, more quickly than you should, right? And in rage, death is the, what? Sea. Yeah, you don't listen to those, huh? Of course, it applies more to Richard himself than to Bollingbroke and Mowbray, right? I mean, he says about them, right? And later on, when they talk about why it is Richard II doesn't listen to John of Gaunt and the Duke of York and his uncles and so on, and then he goes in more into the causes of it, you know? Well, I don't think you say sea. What? Sea, sea as a... The ocean, yeah, rage. Yeah, because it rages, but it can't hear, I guess. The air, the storm, and the waves coming and crashing against you. Raging, but it doesn't hear. But it kind of touches upon those two causes of pride being the cause of deception, right? Yeah. That you attempt something beyond your power. It's hasty as fire. And then you don't listen to those. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen. Thank you, God. Thank you, Guardian Angels. Thank you, Thomas Aquinas. Deo Gracias. God, our enlightenment, Guardian Angels, strengthen the lights of our minds, or to illumine our images, and arouse us to consider more correctly. St. Thomas Aquinas, Angelic Doctor. Praise the Lord. And help us to understand all that you have written. Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen. So is Thomas using his reason, as Shakespeare defines, the use of reason? Is he looking before and after, right? Yeah. So in the previous question, he looked before, right, the Passion of Christ, at the causes of it, right? And now he's looking at the, what? After, the effects, right? He divides this, as he says in the beginning of the 48th Theorem, or in the Premium, about the way of effecting, what it's going to effect, huh? And secondly, about the effect itself, huh? So these are these two questions. So about the first, he says, six things are asked, huh? First, whether the Passion of Christ caused our salvation by way of merit, huh? Secondly, whether by way of, what? Satisfaction, huh? Third, whether by way of sacrifice. Fourth, whether by way of, what? Redemption, right? And attached to that, whether to be the Redeemer is proper to, what? Christ, huh? Isn't that John Paul II's first encyclical? Redeemer of man. Yeah. That's the beginning of the words. And then finally, whether he caused the effect of our salvation by way of the efficient cause, huh? Now, what the heck is all this, huh? And just before we go into the first article, just look at the thing at the end here in question 48, article 6. That's the reply to the third objection, huh? The third objection is saying, well, if it's through this that he caused it, then he can't have caused it through that, in that way, right? And just look at the reply to the third objection. To the third, it ought to be said that the passion of Christ, according as it is compared to his divinity, huh? It acted per modem efficientiae, that's the last thing of the five he's going to be saying, right? Insofar as it is compared to the will, the human will now, it's the will of the soul of Christ, right? It acted by way of what? Merit, huh? According as it is considered in the very flesh of Christ, as opposed to his soul, his will, it acted by way of satisfaction, huh? Insofar as through it, we are liberated from the, what? Yeah, they're probably getting to punishment, right? By way of redemption, insofar as we're liberated from the slavehood, the slavery of what? Guilt, huh? And then, by way of what? Sacrifice, insofar as through it, we are reconciled to what? God, huh? It doesn't explain everything, but it shows you how thorough Thomas is in looking at every aspect of this most important action. So to the first end, let's go to Article 1. To the first end, one proceeds thus. It seems that the passion of Christ did not cause our salvation by way of merit, huh? For he says the principles of passions are not in us. I think someone else is inflicting it, right? For no one merits or is praised except through that of which he himself is the, what? Beginning resource. Therefore, the passion of Christ did nothing, right? By way of merit, huh? Moreover, Christ, from the beginning of his conception, merited both for himself and for us, as has been said before. But it is superfluous, huh? To again merit that which, what? Yeah. Therefore, Christ, through his passion, did not merit our salvation, huh? Moreover, the root of merit is charity. But the charity of Christ was not, did not grow right, was not more augmented in the passion than before. Therefore, he did not more merit our salvation by suffering than he did before. His charity was just as great, right? He tied his shoe with charity. It was as great as when he died on the cross. Okay. But against this is what is said upon that of Philippians 2, chapter 9. On account of which God, what? Exalted him, etc. And then Augustine says, the humility of the, what? Passion. The merit of his clarity, right? For clarity is the, what? Reward of humility. But he is clarified not only in himself, but also in his, what? Members, in the faithfuls. As he himself says, John 17. Therefore, it seems that he merited the salvation of his, what? Faithful. Now Thomas answers in the body of the article. He brings out a distinction. He has very important. I answer it should be said, that as has been said before, that to Christ is given grace, not only as a singular or individual person, right? But also insofar as he's the very head of the church, huh? That from it there might, what? Overflow, you might say, to the members, huh? Of his mystical body. And therefore, the works of Christ in this way have themselves both to himself and to his, what? Members, huh? Just as have themselves the works of another man constituted in grace to himself, right? Now, it is manifest over that whoever is constituted in grace suffers on account of what? Justice. And from this he merits for himself, right? Salvation, huh? According to that of Matthew chapter 5, verse 10. Blessed are those who suffer persecution on account of justice. Whence Christ, not only through his own passion, merited for himself, right, huh? But also he merited salvation, huh? For all of his, what? Members, huh? That's insofar as he's the head of the church, huh? I suppose some theologians would say, well, now does Mary have something like this too? A little bit. Now, to the first objection, saying, hey, the passion has its source in the persecutors, right? He says, to the first it should be said that passion as such has its source, right, on the outside or from the outside. But according as someone voluntarily, what, endures it, right? It has its, what, principle from the inside, right? So when your suffering comes to you, you know, you say, well, why did that nail do that to me, you know? But if you voluntarily sustain it, you can merit, huh? Why did this disease strike me down or something, you know, or this sort of thing, huh? Now, what about Christ meriting from the beginning of his, what, incarnation, huh? He says, to the second it should be said that Christ, from the beginning of his own conception, huh? Merited for us. what? Salvation. He's admitting that, right? He seems like he's admitting the force of the injection. But from our side, or on our side, there are certain impediments, right? By which we are impeded to what? Obtaining the effect of the forced, what? Merits. Merits, huh? Whence to remove those impediments, it is necessary for Christ to what? Suffer, huh? Now what about it having any greater, what? Effect here, huh? To the theory it should be said that the passion of Christ had some effect, which the preceding merits did not have, huh? Not an account of greater charity from which he did this, huh? Was it Mother Teresa's always talking about, you know, doing little things, some great love, right? So Christ did everything, you know, working in the wood shop there, I guess, with Joseph, with as much charity, right? So he says, not on account of there being greater charity, but on account of the, what? The genus, huh? The kind of work it was, which was suitable to such an effect. This is clear from the reasons above brought in for the suitability of the passion of what? Christ and subtle things there. Now the second article is whether the passion of Christ causes our salvation by way of satisfaction, huh? And this, we saw in that other reply to the three, right, is more on the side of the, what? The body, right? To the second one proceeds thus, it seems that the passion of Christ did not cause our salvation by way of satisfaction. For the same person, it seems to belong to satisfy who sinned, huh? Just as is clear in the other parts of penance, right? Right, huh? For it belongs to the same one to what? And to confess who sinned, right? But Christ did not sin, right? According to that of 1 Peter 2, who did not do sin, right? Amid sin. Therefore, he did not satisfy by his own, what? Action, huh? He did nothing to satisfy. Moreover, no one is satisfied through a greater offense, right? But maxima, right? But maxima, we saw this in the last question. A great offense, right? Crime, was perpetrated in the passion of Christ because they most gravely sinned who killed him, as has been said above, huh? Therefore, it seems that through the passion of Christ, God could not be, what? Satisfied, huh? Moreover, moreover, satisfaction implies a certain equality with the, what? Guilt, right? Since it is an act of justice. But the passion of Christ does not seem to be equal to all the sins of the human race, huh? Because Christ did not suffer according to his divinity, which is incapable of suffering, right? But according to his flesh, but according to his flesh, according to that of 1 Peter 4, Christ, therefore, suffered in the flesh, huh? But the soul in which there is sin is more, what? Potent, huh? More excellent than the flesh. Therefore, Christ, by his passion, did not, what? Satisfied for our sins, huh? We're all convinced of that, huh? Mm-hmm. Temporarily? Mm-hmm. But against this is what is said from his person in Psalm 68, huh? What I did not, what? Take or steal, I guess? I paid back, huh? But he does not resolve, he might say, who perfectly did not, what? Does satisfy. Therefore, it seems that Christ in suffering satisfied perfectly for our sins, huh? He says, I answer it should be said that he properly satisfies who satisfies for an offense, who shows to, what? The one offended, right? What is equally equal or more, right? He loves, then, what he, in the offense that he hates, huh? But Christ, he says, in suffering from charity and obedience, huh? Exhibited more or something greater to God, right, than requires the, what? Back of the whole fence of the human race, huh? And why is this so? He says, first, on account of the magnitude of the charity from which he, what? Suffered, huh? Second, on account of the dignity or worth of his life, right, huh? Which he laid down for satisfaction, which was a life of both God and what? Man, huh? And third, on account of the general character of the passion and the magnitude of the pain assumed, right, huh? It was greater, right, than that of anybody else's pain. And therefore, the passion of Christ is not only sufficient, huh? But also a superabundant satisfaction for the sins of the human race, huh? According to that of 1 John 2, that he is a propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but for those of the, what, whole world, right? So in the, what do you call it, the incredible indulgences, right? That the stations of the cross have, what, attached to them, a hundred indulgences with the other regional conditions, right? That are required. It's appropriate. Now, what about Christ not being the one who sinned, right? Why should he satisfy for us? Or how can he? He says, to the first, therefore, it should be said, that the head and its members are, as it were, one mystical person, right? And didn't the Pius XII say that the mystical body of Christ is perhaps the most profound statement of what the church is? You can't fully capture the mystery of the church with one of these things, but this is maybe the best, right? And therefore, the satisfaction of Christ pertains to all the faithful as to his own, what? Members, huh? Insofar also, as two men are one in, what? Charity, huh? One is able to satisfy for the other, right? I guess you've been the famous example of this, where they punish the wrong guy, and then when they discovered he had not, what? He was not the man who was guilty, and they're going to punish the real man, and he says, well, let my punishment serve for him, right? And they've actually let the other guy go. Oh. It's kind of a marvelous, marvelous example of him, and then they're going for another man, right? Yeah, I've heard the story, but even when I was little, I heard this happen more than once, I guess. Well, back to me and Colby, people aren't here taking that place for another man. There's not ever a similar reason about confession and contrition, right, huh? Because satisfaction consists in the exterior act, right? To which one can take, what, instruments, right? Among whom are, what, numbered, even, what, friends, huh? So didn't Teresa and some saints like this, you know, become a, a, after suffering, you know, for others, you know? They would take on for them, huh? I forget what the title was, not a martyr saint, but there was something on the title. Victim soul. What? Victim soul. Victim soul, yeah. Yeah, she made it to our victims of divine mercy, I think. Yeah, yeah. There's a number of saints who did that, kind of an explicit thing, you know. Stephen playing for Paul, right? Yeah. They look at his, as being efficacious, right, for his conversion, right? Yeah, like one of the characters, I can't remember his name, but he was president, but who was the one that, Mois wrote the life of, the Jesuit, got stretched? Campion. Campion. Campion, when they threw his innards into the boiling water, one of the bystanders there was watching rather impartially with the whole thing, and dropped through the water, laid it on his coat, it's instant conversion, and then he was later martyred. Yeah, I think he went to Europe, became a Jesuit, came back and was martyred. But he said it was instantaneous conversion, one drop of water. The bowels of mercy. So it's very important, you know, the Greek proverb, you know, a friend is another self, right? Ophilos, estenous, autos. In the Greek book, you know, it has little quotes in the Greek. But a friend is another self, right? Or sometimes Shakespeare calls a friend a, what, a second self, right? I mean, that's very, very serious. If this is another self or a second self, then it can satisfy for the original self, right? Mm-hmm. It's kind of an amazing thing. Of course, the five virgins, the five fully virgins, and the five, say, well, no, maybe it won't be enough for both of us. So you're going by. So, yeah. Yeah. Catherine of Siena has an interpretation of that in one of her letters. Oh. Who? Catherine of Siena has an interpretation of that in one of her letters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The second one was saying, hey, what about the wickedness of those crucifying them? How can this? So he says, to the second it should be said, that greater was the charity of Christ's suffering than the malice of those, what? Crucifying them. And therefore, more Christ was able to satisfy by his passion than the crucifixers were able to offend, right? Yeah. It's got an amazing thing, right? Yeah. And to such an extent, was the passion of Christ sufficient and superabundant, and that it would be even satisfied for the sins of those crucifying him, right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, there are people who are already beating their hearts right there after his death, you know, but maybe, you know, even some of those who were more leaders, you know, were saved by Christ there. Now, the third thing is saying, well, the flesh is less than the soul. But you're forgetting about the union of these things. Mm-hmm. To the third, therefore, it should be said that the dignity or worth of the flesh of Christ, then, should not be estimated only according to the nature of flesh, but according to the person assuming that flesh, right? Right. Insofar as it was, in fact, the flesh of what? Yeah. Of God, huh? And from this it has, in a certain way, infinite, what? Dignity, right? Mm-hmm. You say, anima kusti, what? Christi salvo mei, right? Yeah. But so far as it's the flesh of God, right? God's body, huh? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Notice the difference between those first two, like was said in that reply to the third objection, right? One is looking more at the soul of Christ and his will, right? And this is looking at what the body suffers about. Okay, now whether the passion of Christ operated by way of what? A sacrifice. And to the third one proceeds thus, it seems that the passion of Christ did not work in the way of a sacrifice. Where he says, truth ought to correspond to the figure, but in the sacrifices of the old law which were figures of Christ, never was human flesh offered up. Got to go down to the Aztecs or something. The Canaanites, I don't know what that part. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. 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Yea Yea Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea. Yea Yea God like that, well, I take the vows as a very good example of that. Then, in a sense, you're giving up, you're losing your own will, in a sense, right? Because you've got to obey, right? The will of the habit or something, huh? But it being in a sense of when he has that, so that you might adhere to God, maybe that's... That's the end or purpose of it, yeah. Because later on, he says at the end of that last article that to reconcile to God, right? Yeah, that's right. I think I've seen other places in Thomas where sacrifice is very much set up, though, with the fact that there's been sin, right? And you need to make sacrifice to God to get reconciled to him, right? Second objection, huh? You know, it's that quote from Augustine, we didn't do, and we need the end of the first one. Okay. Second paragraph, yeah. When Augustine says in the fourth book of the Trinity, what is, what, so fittingly, right, taken by men or assumed by men, that is offered for them, right, huh, the human flesh? And what is so apt to be, what, destroyed, in a sense, huh, immolated, than mortal flesh, right? And what's so clean, right, for cleansing the vices of mortals than what is without the contagion of, what, carnal concubiscence, that flesh that was born in the uterus, and from the virginal womb, huh? And what can be so gratefully offered and received than the flesh of that sacrifice, the body effected of what? Of our priest, huh? I guess you can see a mouthful. Yeah. The second, it should be said, that Augustine, there, speaks of the, what? The figurative sacrifices. And, nevertheless, the passion of Christ, although it is something signified through all the figurative sacrifice, it is, nevertheless, a sign of something that should be observed by us, right, huh? According to that of 1 Peter 4, Christ having suffered in the flesh, right, and you are armed by the same, what? Thought. Because he who suffered in the flesh, that we might... He ceased from sin. Yeah. That not only the, what? Desires of man, right? Right. What he means is in the flesh. Yeah, you're the... But as I said... The third, it should be said, that the passion of Christ on the side of those killing him was a, what? Bad deed, huh? But on the part of the one who was suffering from charity, it was a sacrifice, huh? When's the sacrifice, Christ himself is said to, what? Offer up, huh? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right? Not those who kill them, right?