De Anima (On the Soul)
Lecture 118: Truth, Good, and the Virtues of Reason

Transcript
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So I have to affirm or deny something of you, right, before there's something true or false there. And that's already a statement, and that's in the mind, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, see? Express in judgment, anything? Well, you judge, yeah. But you find truth and falsity in statements primarily. And statements are in the mind. Yeah, the spoken or the written statement were manifest to us, but that's really a sign of something inside, right? Yeah. In a second act there. All right. So truth is primarily the mind, but the good and the bad are chiefly in things. And that's why we see there's a kind of contrariety between knowing and loving, right? Because in knowing, you're trying to take the thing and put it into your mind, right? Right. In loving, your heart is going out to the thing, huh? So we say, I left my heart in San Francisco, right? Yeah. Or we say, my heart's not in it, right? I don't want to do it, you know? Okay? But in the case of the mind, you know, the fundamental act is to grasp. That's what we use the word here all the time in the Latin. Apprehensiva, right? Apprehensiva, which is a word for grasping, huh? And we say we use the word grasp almost as a synonym to understand, huh? If you grasp what I'm saying, huh? Yeah. But notice, when I grasp something with my hand, it's contained inside my hand, isn't it? Yeah. See? And so when the mind grasps something, right, it's contained in the mind, huh? Constantly. Yeah. But with love, we use the opposite of grasping. We speak more of what? Giving, right? Yeah. I give my love to you. I give my heart to somebody, right? Yeah. I say to the students, should I say, it's always bad to lose your mind. It's not always bad to lose your heart. It depends upon to whom you lose it, right? You see? But, you know, when you talk about the mind, you talk about grasping, taking, right? The two has a contradiction. Take the two side, right? When I want to define something, I take the genus of it. I take the differences, right? Yeah. But grasping and taking doesn't signify the perfection of the heart, does it? Okay. You know, where our Lord says, where your treasure is, there also shall your heart be. And Paul, treasure's in heaven, right? Mm-hmm. When neither moths nor thieves break in and so on, right? You remember that? But he says, where your treasure is, there also your heart shall be. Okay? So it's saying that the heart is in the thing, what? Love, right? I left my heart in San Francisco, let's see. Now, when you say the good and bad are in things, the bad is, isn't that just the absence of the good? The lack of good? Yeah, yeah. But it's in the thing out there that there's a lack. A lack, I see. Yeah. I see. This is the reason for the very important difference, that there's the same knowledge of opposites, right? There's the same knowledge of opposites. Yeah. I see. So, the knowledge of virtue and the knowledge of vice are almost the same knowledge, right? Oh, yeah. And one helps me to know the other. Yeah. By knowing what temperance is, helps me know what intemperance is. Right. And vice versa. But now, is it the same love of opposites? See? If I love virtue, that impedes me or prevents me from loving vice. If I love vice, that impedes me from loving what? Virtue, right? Yeah. But it's because in things, one opposite excludes the other. And because love goes out to the thing. So, when I go to the doctor, I say, I don't want high blood pressure, right? Okay. So, if the blood pressure is down, then I rejoice in that, right? It's obvious that I'm concerned about that, right? Okay. So, if I want normal blood pressure, I can't want high blood pressure, can I? But, if I know what normal blood pressure is, that helps me to know what high blood pressure is, right? You see? It's just the same knowledge, in a sense, whereby he knows these, what? Health and sickness, right? As a professor, I know some things, right? And this also enables me to know the ignorance of my students. Right? You see? But, is the love of both the same? If I love knowledge, do I love ignorance? If I love wisdom, do I love foolishness? I was reading it in Basel's life with Samuel Johnson, and if you ever read it, there was some conversation there, where they were talking about somebody was proposing something about, you know, beasts like the cats around here and dogs, you know, having a life in the next world, right? And, of course, Johnson did a, you know, like this kind of talk, you know, this kind of foolish talk, see? So, I was like, I persisted, you know, upon, you know, pursuing this idea, you know, and finally he says, and when you see, you know, a very, you know, intelligent dog, you know, one does know what to think, he says, you know? And Johnson says, well, once he's a very foolish fellow, one does know what to think of him either. So, I would suggest that if you really want to know about virtue, you've got to really know about vice. I mean, I understand the opposite, like, what's his name, Father Brown Mysteries, he knows about vice because he's so virtuous. Yeah, well, you see, if vice involves a negation, right, a lack of something you're able to have and should have, then knowing what virtue is enables you to know better what vice is than the reverse, you see? Just like in my example there, if I have knowledge of some subject, right, through that knowledge I have, I know the student's ignorance better than they could, through their ignorance, know my knowledge, right? Well, I'm confused. I thought what you were saying is that with knowing one opposite, one does know something about the other, whereas knowing opposite really excludes the other. Yeah, yeah. Well, again, you know, if you can see, you know, in kind of accidental ways even, that say a man who drinks too much, you know, I mean, this is bad, right? Then you kind of realize that to drink, you know, moderately, right, is something good, right? Okay. Okay. Or if you see the man who's stingy, right, or extravagant and criticized, right, then you can kind of see, hey, the man, you know, the Greeks put up the words of the Oracle Delphi, nothing too much, right? Right. And people can see that, can't they, huh? You eat too much, or you drink too much, or you, you know, do other things too much, this is bad, right? Yeah. And that kind of helps them to see that the good must involve a certain kind of moderation, huh? Okay. Okay? Yeah, I think that kind of what you go on with what you said, you love the, see Thomas is saying, you know, we become slaves to vices through habits. We just get these habits of doing bad things. Yeah, yeah. So there's a whole series of things I'm putting out here that kind of, you know, confirm what Aristotle said. It says there in the sixth book of wisdom, huh? Well, no, it's about the... Well, I say, one thing is the very words you use, right? You use words like to grasp or to take for the mind, right? Yeah. And if you want to define something, the first thing you do is take its genus. You've got to take its differences, right? But taking, grasping, that kind of means perfection of the mind, right? Yeah. What's the defect of the mind, huh? Mistake. Oh, yeah. Wow. You see? You see? But taking and grasping doesn't seem to indicate the perfection of the heart, does it? Of the love. All right, okay. And so we tend to use the word give there for the heart, don't we, huh? Yeah. I give my love to you, I give my heart to you, right? Okay? Yeah. And that's why I say, you know, to lose your heart to somebody is not bad if they're worthy of being loved, right? Mm-hmm. But to lose your mind is always bad, isn't it? Yeah. Okay? Okay, but, you know, they apply this sometimes to God, too, see? And they say, well, why is it in this life especially we can love God more than we know him, right? Well, in knowing, you're trying to put God into your mind, right? Mm-hmm. And that famous, you know, vision of Augustine there, you know, the little boy said, you know, you know the story, don't you? Repeat again because I can never remember exactly what the story was. You know, he was on the beach there and he was thinking about the Trinity and the little boy was, he dug a hole in it running down to the ocean, bring up water in his pail where it was and kind of put it in the hole. Yeah. And Augustine was distracted by the little boy and said, what are you doing? He says, I'm putting the ocean in this little hole. I think that's why you can't fit the ocean in this little hole. And the little boy said, well, neither can you fit the Trinity into your mind. And the little boy disappeared, right? Well, the point is, you could actually jump into the ocean, couldn't you? Yeah. You see? See? You would be able to put the ocean inside of you, right? But you could more easily jump into the ocean, right? It's kind of, you know, a metaphor there to understand the fact that we can more love God, right? Our will is more proportionate, you might say, to loving him than our reason is to understanding him. Ah. But part of the thing is, because you're trying to, because knowing is what, trying to bring God into our mind, right? Yeah. I can jump into the infinite, like I can jump into the ocean, but I can't put the ocean or the infinite into me very well. And when you say jumping into it, that's loving God, kind of. Yeah, yeah. I never caught that before. Now, the Holy Spirit, you know, if you study the names there in the questions, what, 36, 37, 38, isn't it here? But one of the names of the Holy Spirit is Donum Dei, right? The gift of God, huh? Okay, so 38, I think it is. The name of the Holy Spirit, which is a gift, right? Well, why is the Holy Spirit called gift? Gilead, right? So that was the first gift. Yeah. The reason Thomas gives there is that every good thing we give somebody, right, we give because we love them, right? So the first gift is really what? Love, right? And the Holy Spirit proceeds by way of love. So that's what he's called the gift of God, right? But again, in the way of emphasizing, in general, the idea that giving is more characteristic of loving, right? And when I give, I go out, right? Yeah. And of course, you know, metaphorically it's expressed by cold and what? Hot, right? Which is cold, which is hot? Reason or will? Hot is, uh, will. Yeah, yeah. Hot is Dutch love, right? But once I think it's hot, it, what, tends to expand and overflow to other things, right? You see? Why the cold kind of, what, concentrates, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, Shakespeare says, lovers and madmen have such seething brains, such shaping fantasies, that apprehend more than cool reason ever comprehends. And that's what we say to somebody, you know, when they have some kind of emotional thing and they kind of use their head, you know? Keep your cool, we say, right? Right. What does that mean? Don't use your mind, huh? You see? Yeah. Okay? But the hot, just like, you know, the pot there overflows, right? It tends to, you know, go out to other things, right? That's what love is like. So love is going out to the thing itself, huh? Right. That's very important. I see, huh? Yeah. Okay? Now, for the second, it should be said that true and good include each other, right? For the true is a certain good, right? Truth is something good, right? But it's not the only thing that is good. Health is good. Many other things are good, right? Okay? Otherwise, it would not be what? Desirable, right? But also, the good is something true. Otherwise, it would not be what? Understandable, right? Okay? Thus, therefore, the object of the appetite, right, is able to be something true, insofar as it has a definition of good, right? Just as when someone desires to know the truth. So the object of the practical intellect is something good, is able to be ordered to some doing, but under the what? Definition of the true. The practical understanding also knows truth as a speculative one, but it orders the truth known to what? To, yeah, to work, to doing something, right, huh? Right. Okay? So really, it's not, you know, exactly correct to say that the object of the looking reason is a true, and the practical reason is the, what? The good, right? Right. That's really to say that the object of the will is the good, right? The object of the reason is a true, but the difference between the looking and the practical reason is that the looking reason is interested in truth for its own sake, right? Yeah. And the practical reason is either not interested in the truth at all, or it's interested in a truth that can be ordered to something, doing something or making something, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, okay. Did you see that? Did you buy that then? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Thomas, in a sense, is not denying that true and good are differences of object that differentiate two different powers, but it's the will and the reason that I'm distinguished by that, huh? Okay? But what gets the person confused is the fact that, in a way, the good can come under the true in some way, right? Yeah. Because you can know the truth about the good, right? So when I take up the good, you know, I usually proceed like Socrates does, right? You know, he asks the slave boy, what is good? And the slave boy gives him a bunch of things that he wants, you know? And Socrates says, well, how do all these have in common? And these are all the things he wants, right? Mm-hmm. Well, then you arrive at the first definition of the good is what all want, huh? Okay. But then you could ask the Socratic question, you know, is it good because we want it, or do you want it because it's good, right? Right, huh? They were trying to determine now the truth about the good, right? Okay. See? The good is what all want. Yeah, that's true. Okay. That's true. But is it good because they want it? Is that true? See? No. Or do they want it because it is good? Right. That's what the truth is, right? So we're trying to find out the truth about the good, just like we're trying to find out the truth about the triangle, right? Yeah. Okay? So there's truth about the good, just as there's truth about other things, right? But vice versa, huh? The truth is a good thing you can want, just like there are other good things you want, like health and houses and so on, right? Virtue and so on. So it's kind of interesting, right? Wow. Okay. So it's kind of interesting. So it's kind of interesting. So it's kind of interesting. Now, the third objection was the one based on that proportion, right? Proportion? Yeah. And Thomas really says, to the third it should be said that many differences diversify, what? The sensing powers, right? But should not diversify the, what? Intellectual powers, right? Okay. We'll see that same thing again when we talk about the desiring powers, right? Okay, there'll be two different kinds of desiring powers tied up with the senses, but only one tied up with reason, huh? Okay? But we saw it before, we talked about how memory, right? There's a kind of memory in the universal reason, but it's the same power, right? But in the sense powers, there's a diversity, huh? So we're going to do a little breakdown, then we'll talk about the virtues of these two powers. Now, some people, they use the word virtue in a very narrow way, and this gets them into some difficulty in understanding it, right? Because you have to understand the general before you can understand the particular. Now, a friend of mine had in his kitchen this plaque, these words on it, much virtue in errors, little. Well, there you see something of the broad meaning of what? Virtue, huh? Aristotle the Rebbe says that wealth is the virtue of money. Not the virtue of the man, though. It's the virtue of money. Okay? Or as I say to students, sharpness is the virtue of a knife. Or I could say, my left eye is more virtuous than my right eye. Well, over there, a little blurred with my right eye, I see more distinctly here than my left eye. I say, this is my more virtuous eye. This is less virtuous. I tell students, I don't, that's not because I look at the girls with this eye, and I don't look at the girls with this eye. I can do it with more virtue, right? Yeah, I see. What is this broad meaning of virtue where not only man could be said to have a virtue, but many other things, right? And only man could be said to have a vice, but many other things could be said to have a knife, a vice, like dullness is the vice of a knife. Remember how our Lord used this comparison, too, when he said, you're the salt of the earth, right? And if the salt loses its what? The salt. Yeah. It's cast out, trampled upon, right? Mm-hmm. Okay? If you're making a comparison there, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. So what is this broad and very general meaning of virtue? Curious to me, there's the Greek sense of the excellence. Okay. Okay. Right there, is that the word? Yeah. Purpose and. Yeah. Well, actually, the broad meaning of virtue that we start with in the ethics, before we come to talk about human virtue, right? Okay. Uh, presupposes understanding, Plato's famous definition in the first book of the Republic, the definition of a thing's own act, huh? Okay? Okay. Have you ever heard that definition before? Before we come to that before? I haven't read a book before, I don't remember the definition. Okay. Hmm. Long time ago. Because everything that has its own act, right? Right. Can have a virtue or a vice in this broad sense of the word, virtue or vice, right? Okay. But first of all, you have to see what a thing's own act is, huh? Well, Plato's definition of a thing's own act is the act which either that thing alone can do right, or at least that it does better than other things, huh? Okay. Okay. Okay. Again, please? Yeah, I'll put it on the board here. All right. The act which that thing alone can do, right? So if, for example, if it's only through my eyes that I can see, right, and only through my ears, let's say, that I can hear, then to see is the eye's own act, right? To hear is the ear's own act, right? Okay? Or the act which it can do better than other things. Okay? Now, have you ever seen somebody walk in his hands? Mm-hmm. Okay. But the person can't walk in his hands like he can walk on his feet, can't he? Mm-hmm. And so we'd say the walk is the feet's own act, right? Mm-hmm. Not the hand's own act, right? Right. Okay? In the same way, you know, one thing I learned about screwdrivers, right, it's important to have the right screwdriver for the screw you're working with, huh? Otherwise you tend to ruin the screw top, basically. And I noticed, you know, I remember one time with trying to design the refrigerator, right, and not having the right screwdriver. Or then someone gave me the right screwdriver, all of a sudden, you know, you need to turn the screw that you couldn't turn before with the other one, right? Okay? So it might be that I could use a screwdriver for many different size screws, right? Yeah. But there's a certain, what, screwdriver that is, that can best work with that screw, right? Okay? Mm-hmm. So that's the definition of thing's own act, huh? Okay? Now, in the broad meaning of virtue and vice, you can say everything having its own act, right, could be said, could have, what, its own virtue or its own, what, vice, right? Okay. Okay? Now, what do you mean by virtue there? What do you mean by vice in that sense, right? Well, you could say virtue is the, let's say, quality of the thing, kind of brighter, or to be more precise, disposition of the thing, right, which makes it and its own act good. Okay? I don't know if you agree with what I'm saying here. Virtue is the, what, let's say disposition. It's the disposition of the thing, right, which makes it and its own act better. Okay? It's the quality, right, of the thing, right? Okay. Now, when I say thing, I mean a thing and its own act, right? Right. Mm-hmm. Okay? Let me break that down. Okay, I'll make more clear so I can read much. Yeah, thank you. I have a couple of... Okay. You can say the virtue of a thing having its own act, right, is the quality of it, right, the disposition of it, if you want to say, is the disposition of it that makes it and its own act. Good. Okay. Usually what you just say, what I was trying to say is, what makes a thing in its own act, right? Okay. But let's read that, the quality of disposition of that thing, right? Okay. Now, once I've defined that, then I ask students sometimes, what is the main virtue of a knife? Well, before you can answer that question reasonably, you have to know what a knife's own act is, right? And what is a knife's own act? What's the cut, right? Well, what enables the knife, right, to cut well? Well, in this case, it's pretty easy to figure out what that is. It's sharpness, right? Okay. Now, vice would be just the opposite of that, right? The vice of a thing, having its own act, right, is the disposition of that thing that makes it and its own act bad, right? So what would be the vice of a knife? Yeah. See that? Okay. Now, it may be not in other things so easy to tell what the virtue of the vice is, but you see in general what it is, huh? Now, as I say, when I look at that statue over there with my right eye, it's kind of blurred. I can see it better with my left eye, right? So we could say my left eye has more of the virtue of an eye than my right eye, huh? But it might take someone, like an optometrist or somebody, right, who examines my eye and knows more exactly what is the vice of the right eye or what is the virtue of the left eye, right? You see? But if I saw 2020 or something like that, I'd be a most virtuous eye, right? You see what I mean? Then it goes with moral virtue, right? But you have to know what is the eye's own act, right? See? It's to see. And what enables the eye to see what? Well, right, huh? Okay. Mozart had a very, what? Virtuous ear. See? Okay. One guy was talking to me was in college, right? And he was in some kind of a music appreciation or some kind of music chorus, right? Mm-hmm. And, of course, the professor, you know, would hit a chord on the piano, you know? Okay, now y'all know that, don't you? Why do you think that? So the ears, you know, are more virtuous, right? They can tell exactly what this is, huh? You see, Mozart, you know, you blow up top of it, you go, oh, it's faint almost because his ear is so sensitive to these cells, you see? Okay. But then you get, you know, what's his name? Parker, you know, the guy, do you sell those wines, you know, and so on? Oh. And he's pretty good by judging these things, you know? Okay. So he has a more virtuous tongue, shall we say, or a sense of smell. Now, I get a, you know, I don't trust my judgment too much in these matters, you know, huh? You know, I mean, if I have some appreciation of good wine, but, you know, keep down to some greedy, yeah? You know, you see? Okay. Now, go up to this thing up here. Much virtuous herbs lead to a mint, right? Now, what is an herb's own act, huh? What's the season of the food, right? Okay. So, if it seasons the food well, then it has the virtue of a, what, herb, huh? Okay? Now, a lot of people don't, they aren't too knowledgeable of these things, right? And they buy herbs and they have them on hand for some time, right? Right. And I guess they lose their savor. They do that. And I had a big connoisseur chef in my kitchen one day. And he said, oh, this is all good. Tell me, I'll see. He's telling you, I'll stop on. Is it around too much? Well, you see? You know, it's just like the eye doctor, right? Who knows the virtue of the vice of my eye. This guy knows the, what, virtue of the herbs. And when the herb is lost, it's virtue, huh? Yeah. Okay? But notice, it's appropriate to have this thing hang in the kitchen, like a friend of my dad, because the herbs that were apt to have the virtue of an herb, the men who are eating there and overeating and all the rest, right? Getting drunk, it's, what, you see what I mean? Okay? But notice that our Lord makes that comparison, doesn't he, huh? Yeah. You see? And how you are the salt of the herb, right? And you're supposed to be good, and you're supposed to, what? Save the world, just like those good people in the city there that's going to spread the city for, if you find so many good people in there, remember how it keeps up. So, yeah, yeah. I was, you know, Castanel's being in sin, right? Eventually he does. So, you see the broad meaning of virtue there, right? Yeah. So, why does Aristotle, you'll find it in Plato, Aristotle, the Greeks in general, they'll talk about the virtue of a horse, right? Yeah. The virtue of the dog or something, you know. You know, if the horse, you know, he hates the horse, should, you know, at least in the service of man, right? He has the virtue of a horse. Okay? Now, why was Aristotle saying wealth is the virtue of money? He doesn't say the virtue of the man. Yeah. He says the virtue of money. Well, what must you always know before you can know the virtue or the vice of that matter of a thing? What must you always know before? The act. What its own act is, yeah. So, what's the money's own act? What do you use money to do? To buy. To buy, yeah, yeah. So, if you're wealthy, then you can buy wealth. The best cut of meat, the fancy car, etc., etc., right? If you're poor, you've got to buy the secondhand clothing, right? The used car, the cheap cut of meat, the $2 wine, etc., etc., right? See what I mean? You buy poorly, right? See what I mean? So, poverty would be the vice of money, and wealth, the, what? Virtue of money. You see that? So, in Nicomachean Ethics, of course, Aristotle's concern with the virtues of what? Man, right? Okay? And this is a little bit more involved, right? Right? Yeah. In the virtue of the knife, but they're asking for what quality is it, or qualities, right? That make a man, and what a man does, well, okay? We're not going to go into all the virtues today. That's the Nicomachean Ethics course. But we want to talk about the virtues of what? The virtues of reason, in particular. I might just mention passing that Aristotle, at the end of the first book of Nicomachean Ethics, he divides human virtue into what? Two kinds, right? The moral virtues, and then the, what? Virtues of reason. Some people call it intellectual virtues. Okay? Virtues of the intellect or understanding, right? Now, what is the basis for this division, right? The virtues of reason, of course, are going to be in reason, and the moral virtues will be in the emotions, and in the, what? Will. Okay? So, courage, for example, in moderation, are in the emotions, although different emotions, right? So, courage is concerned with emotions like fear and boldness, right? And things are dangerous to the body, and so on. And temperance is about, what? Hunger and thirst and sexual desire, and so on. And mildness is about anger, and so on, right? Okay? So, these are virtues that are obviously in the emotions, huh? And then there are virtues like justice, say, that are in the will, huh? Okay? Now, what's the basis of this division of human virtue into these two kinds, right? Well, before you can know what the virtue of anything is, you've got to know what its own act is, right? Now, things own act is the act which either it alone has, right? Or at least it just has better than other things, huh? And so Aristotle, in the first book, before he gets to this, he asks, does man have his own act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? Or is he next without the act? there's some act that man has that the other animals don't have or at least they don't have to the extent that man has well man of course has reason right then okay if you define reason exactly the way like say Shakespeare does in the definition of reason then man alone has reason right if you are a little more loose in your understanding of reason or you might say the higher animals have some partaking of reason right but not to be said the man's act right so man's own act is going to be an act involving reason right that's the act which man alone has so he has more fully than the other animal son well now what's the basis for this division here well it's because the will especially but also the emotions they can partake in something of reason they can partake of reason so my emotions can be what habituated right yeah to listen to reason and therefore it's the only way the acts of my will okay so they can have something that's what involving reason okay and therefore it's story so it's not just the acts of reason itself but also the acts of what partakes of reason you see that's the basis part of the division there so sometimes we say that man is an animal with reason so therefore man's own act right is the act with reason right that's why he used to teach this when I say to the students now why did I say the act with reason why didn't I say the act of reason and I say these two phrases mean the same thing an act with reason and an act of they mean the same thing an act with reason and an act of reason no or Shakespeare say love and reason keep little company nowadays a pity no one makes them better acquainted so notice a love can be what reasonable or what unreasonable right right anger can be reasonable or unreasonable right when our lord chases the money changes out of the temple right he has a reasonable anger right if you're using my kids for target practice right and I come over to stop you for doing this sort of thing I actually have a little bit of anger there right okay may not have to kill you but enough to firmly stop you from this kind of behavior right so eating and drinking right can be reasonable or unreasonable right so things that are not acts of reason but that can be ordered or measured by reason they are said to partake of reason right okay and Plato sometimes makes an interesting comparison you know that reason is to the emotions like a man is to his horse when the man first gets on the horse the horse wants to what throw the man off right and if the man doesn't continue to get on top of the horse the horse will kind of what go its own way right but if the man continues to get back on top of the horse he may succeed in what habituating the horse to obey him right and that's in a way what moral virtue is right it's the habituation of the will or the emotions to obey reason Aristotle's interesting comparison that the reason though should rule the emotions like a man rules his son not like a master rules his what slave right okay so it's for the good of the emotions and the good of the will that they are ruled by reason so it's not just the reason ruling them for its own good right who said that about reason Aristotle yeah he raises the question right should reason rule the emotions like a master his slave or like a father his son and he argues it should rule like a father his son it's kind of interesting when Thomas is in the secundi secundi there he's talking about the sins of the flesh and the vices of the flesh right and he calls them childish vices right and you say well why does he say this right well he says it's because if you don't chastise the child right he eventually becomes unruly and you can't rule him right and that's where the word chastity comes from really right you know originally we speak of chastising a child right you see when the child gets out of hand right if you don't chastise the child he becomes ungovernable eventually in the same in the same way you don't chastise right your emotions I was driving up to Quebec one time see and had a new car a crazy Frenchman passed me on this bad road and throar and I could hear the rock his tires kicked up in the side of my car and there's a mark there you know so I I'm a philosopher I'm not getting excited about this I said so Sarasota will quote Homer you know say you know you know what he quote Mary Carey now is trying to call himself right you know worst things have I endured you know and so on okay so an act of reason includes not only the act of reason but acts measured or directed or ordered by reason okay in a sense your mother and father are doing that before your own reason is developed right so grandma or aunt so and so gives you a box of candy for your birthday the first inclination is to stuff yourself eating that candy right and your mother says now you've had enough for today right put it away and you'll have some tomorrow right but she kind of rules a little bit of reason there right because if you eat it all the day we'll be for tomorrow right yeah and you know the tenth piece is not as enjoyable as the first piece right you might be kind of sick to your tummy right I remember we used to have this little book there about the little rabbit there was it who wanted to ask me if he wanted to give his birthday and wanted to have all the candy he could eat that day is right that story and of course he got so sick by the time all the relatives got to order for birthday he had to go to bed because he learned the lesson right it was a really good little story for a child to hear right but you know even the children they would sell a big table you know all kinds of sweets and candies and so on and some more healthy food of course the first few days the kids are stuck in the candy all the time and not even a proper diet but before long they kind of you know they don't feel too good from it and they don't you know and they start to eat a more balanced diet okay but the same way of your anguously my brother used to pick up something and throw it at me you know and so my mother would always stop and give him a little spanking or something right and then in fact you'd see you know they'd get angry you'd pick a thing up and then you'd stop and look around to see they're already starting to learn a little bit of control right so your parents kind of start you know your parents are not happy you know you get their first start and do these things and I noticed you know with my first thought in California you know first I really met I had students who had drunk wine you know at the dinner table with their parents and they'd grown up with it and they had you know mature attitude towards drinking that I'd never known among my high school buddies he's getting drunk this weekend that's what you know level of maturity right and if you learn to drink with your buddies you don't learn to drink modern day you learn to drink to get drunk or something you know